Path: g2news1.google.com!news4.google.com!news.glorb.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!bigfeed2.bellsouth.net!news.bellsouth.net!hwmnpeer01.lga!hwmedia!news-server.columbus.rr.com!tornado.ohiordc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail From: Matanya Ophee <[email protected]> Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Poor Old Bream Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 71 Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 15:27:14 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.160.174.108 X-Complaints-To: [email protected] X-Trace: tornado.ohiordc.rr.com 1123514834 24.160.174.108 (Mon, 08 Aug 2005 11:27:14 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 11:27:14 EDT Organization: Road Runner High Speed Online http://www.rr.com "William D Clinger" <[email protected]> wrote: >Matanya Ophee, a publisher of so-called "classical" music, >is making a stink while pointing to the name of a different >marketing category: > >> I am not changing the subject. You are. When you tell me about any >> guitarist who play Celtic tunes on the guitar without arranging them >> first for the guitar, > >You denied the existence of Celtic tunes, which is ludicrous. >If you misspoke, and meant only to say that Celtic melodies, >like all others, are normally subjected to arrangement when >played on the guitar, I wouldn't be laughing at you. Since you are obviously incapable of understanding what I said, in the context of which I said it, then let me rephrase this in a dumbed down version, so even you could understand it: In the context of the discussion about David Russel's arrangements supposed inauthenticity as compared to arrangements of the same tunes by other arrangers, no one, bar none, is actually performing unarranged Celtic tunes. Consequently, in the context of the present discussion, Celtic tunes, as a descriptive term for a particular musical performance genre, are a non-existent red herring. All there is are _arrangements_ of tunes that can be traced back to Ireland and Scotland (never to Brittany AFAIK...). Some arrangements are better than others, and each have their flock of adherents. But for any group to claim that they, and only they, represent authentic Celtic music, is about on the same level of PR BS we have discussed elsewhere... >Giggle. Sorry, I just remembered your "consciously excludes >the...Welsh and Bretons" blunder. And a whole lot of other >honest mistakes, come to think of it. Which reminds me, have >you made any progress on that videotaped apology you owe me? Whatever makes you think I owe you anything? I already told many times: I was right all along and your picayune niggling repetitions of the same mantra over these many years only indicate that you do not understand the basic issue under discussion then. Perhaps you ought to review my initial post on that subject: http://tinyurl.com/c3za7 And if you wish to re-argue the case, for the thousand's time, I suggest you find other people to commiserate with. I am sure there are some lurkers here who would gladly oblige you. >> Your Celtic crap is a recent usurpation of the musical heritage of >> proud peoples, and the traditions it espouses are not any older than >> the last 20-30 years. IOW, PR BS. > >They are proud of their tunes, many of which go back hundreds >of years. Only an ignorant philistine would deny that long >tradition, and the very existence of those tunes. No one denies that the tunes go back hundreds of years. What I deny, categorically, and I dare you to prove me wrong, is that long tradition existed uninterrupted from the time O'Carolan's book was published until today. Where there any Celtic bands in the 18th century playing bouzouki, or guitar? Matanya Ophee Editions Orphe'e, Inc., 1240 Clubview Blvd. N. Columbus, OH 43235-1226 614-846-9517 fax: 614-846-9794 http://www.orphee.com http://www.livejournal.com/users/matanya/